SRP-2401CI+ vs. SRP-2410

[Riccardo]

Hello,

comparing SRP-2401CI+ and SRP-2410, which are the reasons to prefer the second over the first (if there is any) and vice versa?

On Topfield's site it is clearly stated that SRP-2410 has 2 DVB-S2 tuners, while for SRP-2401CI+ they only state that it has 2 DVB compliant tuners. So my question is: are SRP-2401CI+'s tuners DVB-S2 compliant?

[Twilight]

the 2401 and 2410 are the same regarding the tuners.
but it is not easy to buy a 2410 because they are sold out and not produced any more.

twilight

[Gerti]

Hi!

2410:
- 2CI Slots

2401CI+:
- 2CI+ Slots
- YouTube
- ShoutCast

Gruß,
Gerti

[Riccardo]

So, there is no reason to look for a 2410, right? As I understand, 2401 seems to have ALL features of 2410, plus some features more, right? I tried to read all threads in the board, but I sure missed many things, as I do not speak German at all, therefore I had to use an automatic translator, which unfortunately has many lacks.

Among all things that were not so clear to me, one caught my eye more. As I understood, owing to CI+ specifications, some recordings from some HD channels just delete themselves after 90', because of CI+ restrictions. Of course, that would not happen on a 2410, because it is not CI+ compliant. Does that means that those CI+ restricted recordings would be possible and viewable for ever on a 2410 without self-deleting, or that a 2410 could never descramble and record those restricted programs at all?

Also, I see that Sky is launching a new 3D channel and a new 3D box. Do you think that it will be possible to upgrade 2401 to be a 3D decoder via new firmware or there is a hardware lack on 2401 and a new model would be needed for 3D purposes?

[Twilight]

[quote="Riccardo"]So, there is no reason to look for a 2410, right? As I understand, 2401 seems to have ALL features of 2410, plus some features more, right? I [/quote]
right
[quote="Riccardo"]
Among all things that were not so clear to me, one caught my eye more. As I understood, owing to CI+ specifications, some recordings from some HD channels just delete themselves after 90', because of CI+ restrictions.[/quote]
in the moment that belongs only to hd+ channels

[quote="Riccardo"]
Of course, that would not happen on a 2410, because it is not CI+ compliant. Does that means that those CI+ restricted recordings would be possible and viewable for ever on a 2410 without self-deleting, or that a 2410 could never descramble and record those restricted programs at all?[/quote]
only when you use a ilegal ci module for hd+ channels, if you have leagal hardware you have the same situation.

[quote="Riccardo"]
Also, I see that Sky is launching a new 3D channel and a new 3D box. Do you think that it will be possible to upgrade 2401 to be a 3D decoder via new firmware or there is a hardware lack on 2401 and a new model would be needed for 3D purposes?[/quote]
the question is, which prozess thay will use in that channel. i know that there is one which can be recorded with the srp receivers. in that case it depends on the tv if its possible to see 3d or not.
but in the 3d isue i am not an expert.

twilight

[Riccardo]

Of course, that would not happen on a 2410, because it is not CI+ compliant. Does that means that those CI+ restricted recordings would be possible and viewable for ever on a 2410 without self-deleting, or that a 2410 could never descramble and record those restricted programs at all?

only when you use a ilegal ci module for hd+ channels, if you have leagal hardware you have the same situation.[/QUOTE]

But if you would use an illegal CI module for HD+ channels, you should be able to record them and descramble them with 2401, too, without having them self-deleting, right? I mean: in that case also, there would be no advantages in using 2410 instead of 2401, right?

[FilmFan]

[quote="Riccardo"]But if you would use an illegal CI module for HD+ channels, you should be able to record them and descramble them with 2401, too, without having them self-deleting, right? I mean: in that case also, there would be no advantages in using 2410 instead of 2401, right?[/quote]
Not exactly, it is possible for the provider to deactivate standard CI modules in CI+ devices. So you couldn't even watch (descramble) the program with your standard CI modul. But nobody knows if and when this will be happen.

[Riccardo]

[quote="FilmFan"]Not exactly, it is possible for the provider to deactivate standard CI modules in CI+ devices. So you couldn't even watch (descramble) the program with your standard CI modul. But nobody knows if and when this will be happen.[/quote]

Basically, you are suggesting that in a 2401 (which is CI+ compliant) the CI Module could be deactivated and you couldn't descramble the program in a HD+ channel, while in a 2410 (which is NOT CI+compliant) the CI Module could NOT be deactivate, therefore it would keep on working and descrambling the program in a HD+ channel?

[FilmFan]

[quote="Riccardo"]Basically, you are suggesting that in a 2401 (which is CI+ compliant) the CI Module could be deactivated and you couldn't descramble the program in a HD+ channel, while in a 2410 (which is NOT CI+compliant) the CI Module could NOT be deactivate, therefore it would keep on working and descrambling the program in a HD+ channel?[/quote]
Yes, in that case only an official CI+ module could descramble the HD+ channels in a CI+ receiver like the 2401. But as I've written nobody knows if this will ever happen, at the moment only one cable provider in the Netherlands did this.

[Riccardo]

So it really seems that there is definetely no advantage on having a 2410 instead of a 2401.
But I searched eBay for both models and, oddly enough, you can find 2401s even used for sale, while you can't find any 2410, not even used! Why that? Why people sell a 2401, that should be owning since not so long ago, as that model is out since a few months, while nobody sells a 2410?
Does 2401 (or maybe just a stock of it) have any hardware bugs or flaws?

[Wolfman]

As far as I am concerned, I would never buy a CI+ Device because of the possible restrictions.
So I bought one of the last 2410 to have a Fallback Device if my 2100 should die .

[BluField62]

As far as I am concerned, I would never buy a CI+ Device because of the possible restrictions.
So I bought one of the last 2410 to have a Fallback Device if my 2100 should die .

Pessimist

[Wolfman]

OT: Pessimisten sind realistisch gewordene Optimisten Selbst wenn das Teil noch 20Jahre hält - bis dahin gibts vermutlich nur noch den CI+ Mist.

[Riccardo]

As far as I am concerned, I would never buy a CI+ Device because of the possible restrictions.
So I bought one of the last 2410 to have a Fallback Device if my 2100 should die .

Well, you must be right, as you can easily find used 2401, while you hardly find 2410.

But something still remain unclear to me. Having said that I know virtually nothing about CI+ specifications, here's my doubt. Let's say that you want to watch and/or record a program scrambled according to CI+ standard. I guess that only a CI+ module could descramble it, because, if a NON-CI+ module would be able to descramble it as well, that would make the whole CI+ standard pointless. If this guess is correct, you would need a CI+ module to descramble that program. Now, if the CI+ module would let a NON-CI+ decoder (such as 2410) descramble the program, it would loose all CI+ restrictions, because that decoder is not able to support those. But, again, that would make the whole CI+ standard pointless.
Therefore my guess would be that with a 2410 you just shouldn't be able to handle restricted programs at all, while with a 2401 you could handle them, even though in a restricted way.
But I could be wrong, because, as I said earlier, I know nothing about CI+.
Any thoughts?

By the way, which would be, in your opinion, a fair price for an used 2401 and for an used 2410?

[FilmFan]

But, again, that would make the whole CI+ standard pointless.

You've got it.

It depends on how it goes on. At the moment there are ways to use the cards without a CI+ module, but maybe sometime they exchange all cards and this wouldn't be possible any more. But even if this is possible only a minority of people know this fact and are willing to invest time to do so.

[Riccardo]

Ok, I will try and determine which of the two is more convenient to me.
I am still not 100% convinced that 2410 will ever let me do more with CI+ scrambled channels than 2401. And, hopefully, maybe I will never know the answer, as in my Country it does not seem that CI+ scrambling mode is soon to come for satellite TV (on the contrary, I guess that it will soon be used on terrestrial television, as a CI+ CAM came out recently from our terrestrial broadcaster).

Anyways, whichever model I will choose, I think that I will buy it used.

In your opinion, which could be a fair price to pay for either an used 2410 or an used 2401?

[karlek]

Right now, there is an already used 2410 for sale via amazon.de.
IMHO those 450,- EUR are acceptable given that the Toppys in a good condition.

Regards, karlek

[Riccardo]

Thank you!

Therefore I will take 450 EUR as a reference.
As it seem that 2410s are veeeery rare, I hope to make up my mind about which of the two to choose shortly enough to get that one on Amazon in case I will go for 2410

I tried to download user's manual for both 2410 and 2401. Even in Topfield's site, you can't find manuals for 2401, while you can find a manual for 2410, but only in German language, which, unfortunately, I can't speak.
Could anyone point me to where English manuals for the two of them are?

[FilmFan]

Could anyone point me to where English manuals for the two of them are?

SRP-2401CI+

Because there is no difference except CI+ and the YouTube/ShoutCast stuff the manuals for both should be nearly the same.

[Riccardo]

SRP-2401CI+

Thank you!!